Catholic Dads

8 Responses to Americans Favor Restricting Abortion

1. The Dutchman says:

   October 15, 2008 at 8:01 am

   So — since only 6% favor an out and out ban, then shouldn't our strategy be to chip away at abortion?
2. RobK says:

   October 15, 2008 at 8:38 am

   Dutch – how did I know that you would respond to this?You got the numbers wrong. It is 13% (not 6%) who favor an all out ban. And it is only 8% who stand where the Obama stands.There are 60% who want to restrict abortion to cases of rape, incest or the death of the mother or an all out-ban. My friend, this would eliminate the vast majority of abortions performed in the country.As I got back from praying in front of a Planned Parenthood today, I want to share that I was not at all amazed to see so many Obama stickers on the cars of the employees there as they drove in. Even of the expensive German imports of the doctors themselves. Somehow, these abortionists think that it does matter who we vote for.I would prefer to be on the side of life opposite their ilk rather than do the mental gymnastics necessary to assuage my conscience in order to pull with them.
3. The Dutchman says:

   October 15, 2008 at 10:59 am

   Sorry Rob, got "option 6" mixed up with 13%.And yes, you're absolutely right, Obama is among the 8% of pro-abort extremists, just as Palin is among the 13% who favor zero tollerance (and who knows where John McCain really stands …).If there really are 60% who want to restrict abortion to cases of rape, incest or the death of the mother or an all out-ban (and polls differ, but that does sound about right), then clearly, our strategy should be to aim for that.Unfortunately, many pro-lifers take an all-or-nothing approach and this only serves to keep the issue unresolved.Yeah — I hate to be in the company of pro-aborts politically, but I think that by voting against the war we might just get peace, but that — — Oh, you know what I think by now.Anyway, I'll be saying the WORLDWIDE ROSARY FOR UNBORN BABIES on Saturday as I'm sure you will be too.
4. RobK says:

   October 15, 2008 at 10:56 pm

   Dutch, as a reminder, voting for Obama comes with his promise of signing the FOCA which will remove all restrictions on abortion (increasing the number of children murdered). He has also promised to allow US taxpayer funding for groups that perform abortions in other countries (increasing the number of children murdered).This is a fundamental and consequential difference.As for the war, Obama has already backed off of his claims about what he will do. He is selling a bill of goods, but will find that he needs flexibility once elected (i.e., change his mind).His election will mean the deaths of far more innocent. Further his desire to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act will de facto legalize gay marriage if it is not repealed in California and Connecticut (or whatever fool state court legalizes it).Obama is a vote for the wrong side of the culture war. Obama is on the side of the culture of death not the culture of life. What is more, he has been shown to be partisan and a liar making his promises empty.We all must act to end abortion in every way possible. Prayer- absolutely – first and foremost. But we must act on the national stage as well.
5. The Dutchman says:

   October 16, 2008 at 4:37 pm

   Rob:It’s times like this that I wished I lived in Europe (where they have proportional representation, and every country has about fifteen viable parties) and I could vote Christian Socialist, or Argentina where I could vote Peronist. But, alas, I love in the USA where I must choose between the Imperialist/Capitalist/allegedly-pro-life Republicans, and the less-Imperialist/less-Capitalist/avowedly-pro-choice Democrats. I haven’t felt 100% about any candidate since I voted for Buchanan in 1996.Okay, here goes —FOCA: This will not change anything. It is completely redundant, merely legislating what Roe v. Wade already says. And, if Roe v. Wade is overturned (which, I do pray for), then FOCA would probably be declared unconstitutional as it usurps state power.Taxpayer Funding for Overseas Abortions: Nasty, and I hate it. But — right now those abortions are being financed out of other foreign aid budgets and NGO funds. I anticipate that this would result in a shifting of payment methods, not a real increase in abortions. But, yeah, this is your best argument, and I can only say that this would do less damage than our imperialist adventuring does now. This is my opinion, and I expect that men of good will are going to disagree about this.The War: I believe that Obama is pussyfooting about what he is saying about the war because of the well-established Republican record of misrepresenting firm statements on his part. One look at how they have mis-represented his tax program should confirm these apprehensions. Again — it is my opinion that Obama is MUCH better on peace issues.Culture War: The culture war is not fought in the halls of government; it is fought in the marketplace of culture. As long as we have a movie and TV industry that glamorize homoeroticism, we will have rising tide of approval for gay marriage. As long as husbands/fathers are portrayed as ignorant boobs on every sit-com in prime time, we will have feminism. In this area, government responds to the spirit of the times, and this spirit is shaped by the popular culture which, in a free society, government does not control.Have you heard of Sister Cecilia Gaudette? She is a 106-year-old nun who is voting for Obama, and one of her reasons is because “he seems to be a good man with a good private life.” Personally, I find much to admire about Obama. He overcame a messy and difficult upbringing to attend our best university where he did well (not like McCain, who was a legacy at Annapolis and then finished at the bottom of his class), he then worked selflessly for the public good for many years, he is quite happily married to his FIRST wife (unlike McCain who dumped his first), his children adore him (and neither of them are pregnant out of wedlock!), he’s not a flip-flopper (unlike McCain on abortion or the state of our economy), he’s not an opportunist (unlike McCain who has abandoned just about everything he stood for eight years ago), he can think on his feet — he’s just decent.From a pro-life standpoint, I just don’t see Obama making things worse, or McCain making them better.But on the war, the economy, and issues of social justice —I think four more years of Republican rule would be a disaster for this country.I say the Rosary at least once a day. Each time I say it, I mention a special intention. Sometimes these are very personal (e.g. for the conversion of Tracy Ryan, or the full recovery of Maggie Lee Baran from cancer), some times they are very general (e.g. for the conversion of godless communists the world around). Not a week goes by that I don’t pray for the unborn. And lately, I’ve been praying for the leaders of our nation. I do not doubt that your prayers are much like mine and I hope that, even if we disagree about practical politics, that we remain friends in Christ.
6. RobK says:

   October 17, 2008 at 12:25 am

   Issues like abortion and the defense of marriage are not issues that can be compromised for things that do not rise to the level of moral imperatives.We have a choice between two candidates that differ fundamentally on moral issues that will shape our legal landscape. Obama and his ilk clearly stand against life, and having all three branches of government in the hands of the party of death will have dire consequences. Both candidates believe that abortion hangs in the balance, as does every major pro and anti-abortion group. It is unreasonable to hold that they are all incorrect so that we can let other issues take precedence. In terms of specifics, FOCA does more than what you are saying. It would nullify restrictions on abortion that have been placed at the state level. Also the gay marriage issue is at stake because of Obama's desire to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act.I disagree with you on the prosecution of the war and on what is best for the economy (and on the idea that Europe knows what it is doing politically). People of good will can disagree on thse. That is not true for abortion, euthanasia, the defense of marriage, and other such issues.Thankfully, some bishops are becoming even more explicit here (see my post on this issue). A Catholic cannot in good conscience vote for Obama. Nothing at stake rises to the level of voting for the most pro-abortion candidate this country has ever seen.We fundamentally disagree on this. I think that our pro-life values take precedence over issues on which people can reasonably disagree. You take a different position. As to our remaining friends, I think that goes without question. The love Christ teaches us comes before politics. We are all put here to love one another – that is not optional. I also know that you intend well, because I once said very similar things to what you are saying now and I know I intended well.
7. The Dutchman says:

   October 17, 2008 at 7:50 am

   I think I have found our real misunderstanding:"We fundamentally disagree on this. I think that our pro-life values take precedence over issues on which people can reasonably disagree. You take a different position."I do think that pro-life values are the most important; I just don't think that John McCain is really all that pro-life.It's not like the Republicans nominated genuine, hard-core, pro-life activists like Pat Buchanan (whom I have voted for twice) or Alan Keyes — both of whom I probably would be obliged to vote for. In point of fact, despite violently disagreeing with Keyes on economic issues, I did feel obliged to vote for him when he ran for senate against Obama for precisely that reason.No, the Republicans nominated McCain and I don't trust him one bit.I'm not being sarcastic in asking this, and I am aware that you have other reasons for voting Republican, but I feel I have to ask: how many times will the Republicans have to betray you by doing nothing about abortion before you stop trusting them? What would persuade you that the abortion issue isn't just a political football to them? Or are you really satisfied with the Republican record on this?P.S. Don't forget to sign up for the Worldwide Rosary for Unborn Babies / 2008 event on Facebook!http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/event.php?eid=34300946149&ref=ts
8. RobK says:

   October 17, 2008 at 8:21 am

   I am going to take your question on Republican betrayals seriously, but not right now – there is a story I have been meaning to tell.I wanted Brownback not McCain. But McCain has made clear commitments and I think he is a man for whom honor is more than just a word. He would very likely help the cause, and he will not do damage.My vote is for McCain (especially with Palin). But stronger than my support for McCain is my vote against Obama. Obama publicly advocates evil, but with a face and manner that has convinced so many that he is not. I think he is a liar with a silver tongue who can say one thing and lead people to believe he said the opposite. I think he will do tremendous damage to the cause of life. I think he will usher in policies that will reduce the rights of those of us opposed to the dictatorship of relativism. I think that many more people, innocent people, will die if Obama is elected than McCain.I think that nothing is more important than the battle raging that some call a culture war. It is the battle for the soul of our country. Obama is on the wrong side of this battle, and it isn't even close.